plan? >> that makes me furious what makes me more upset is the whole problem. >> thank you for coming. the ti left this evening. we will see you back here monday. i apologize. i am accountable. >> will kathleen sebelius be fired because of the obama care web site? i say who cares. the next bureaucrat will chase the fact. central plan produces failure like this car. it's hard to drive. it spews pollution. that's what we get with obseram care. >> now the oib administratid -- administration is some will have to pay double digit increases. >> halloween they gave us something that we should be scared of obama care. obama scare. that's our show tonight.

>> and now john stossel. >> happy halloween. what scares you? nothing scares me as much as big government and central planning. like this. this is obama care. this kind of micro management takes our money and limits our freedom. government can't even count votes accurately. now they are going to manage all of our healthcare? a few weeks ago the president addressed the failure of his web site and he made one point that is absolutely true. >> the affordable care act is not just a web site. it is much more. >> right. this is so much more. failure of on-line exchange is a symptom of this disease. government mike troe mmicro man. they can't make a web site work

and for years they offer something called e health. millions of people go there and comparison shop. many buy insurance. the web site lists different companies prices deductibles. they have enrolled nearly 2 million people. john good man points out it will enroll the entire country if it were given the freedom to do that. he said tz private not a single exchange in the contract would help. the central planners say government doesn't fit. michael bergis was a skeptical he stopped practicing to take a muchle much less useful job, doctor, congressman bergis you wrote an op ed saying congress was supposed to be different than europe. >> honestly the whole premise of the founding of our society was that it was a free society based on limited government with

consent of the government. we broke away from a place where divine themes were the popular policy. you owed the king the tithe of tax after all he was anointed by god. >> a majority at the time voted for it. >> it passed and as the president will tell you quickly it passed through the supreme court with some changes. it is still in the purview of the united states congress to change something that passed. change something the people don't want. the next step in this drama, if you will, is up to the american people. i have done what i can for the last three years to either try to deflect or improve or not damage people so badly with this thing b , but honestly you remember in 1988 when the catastrophic healthcare plan was revealed

after the people rose up as one and said you have to get rid of this thing? that is the type of citizen involvement that is going to be required to reverse course on what you directly point out is a massive government over reach. >> let's move on to the legislation itself. the european idea is healthcare isn't right. what do you say to these american politicians making the same point? oo it is a right and not a privilege. >> it is a right, not a privilege. >> not a privilege for a fortunate fubu a right for all of us to enjoy. >> it's a right government should give it to people? >> i refer to look at it more as a responsibility. i recognized it wasn't my responsibility to provide food, housing and healthcare for my familiar -- it was my responsible to provide housing food and healthcare for my

family. >> what about the government plan as soon as>> what started out to be a safety net program to almost half of the country which is what the medicaid expansion in the affordable care act does. if we were doing such a great job there people would have embraced it. in fact they have not because those safety net programs have been part of driving up healthcare in the united states. there are ways to reform the programs and not make them so dell terius but for whatever reason we choose not to do that. >> i would say free speech is a right. healthcare is a right they have a right to forcibly force you to treat somebody or forcibly take your money to treat someone. what is your answer to your colleague congressman allen grace son who on the floor of congress said this? >> the republican's healthcare plan for america don't get sick.

that's right. don't get sick. if you get sick the republican healthcare plan is this. die quickly. >> you work with the gentlemen. you want people to guy quickly? >> i have never spoken to him about that speech. i wonder today if he regrets making it. here's the thing. i have the ability to take a fore regard leaning healthcare system. i practiced in it for years. i didn't expect compensation from everyone that i saw. there are ways to deal with the problems at hand. what congress did three and a half years ago was successfully through people off the scent of

how to fix things as a result of what we have now. that's why you have people so upset. the president knew in the federal health -- i am sorry. the federal register back in june of 2010 that the millions of people learning about the health insurance they knew that. they knew that about three years ago. they choose to do nothing about it. >> thank you congressman burgess. most of the discussion about obama care starts with the assumption that the government should pay for our healthcare. it's the right. think about how this perverts incentive. what if we bought food the way we pay for healthcare? what would that be like? >> i would buy steak after steak. why not? my insurance company is paying for most of it. why should i get hamburger. i will get the finest cut steak and lots of them. this seems crazy. yet, that's how we buy our

healthcare. >> betsy mccoy former lieutenant governor of new york read through all of this. this requires everybody get everything. >> everything. not steak, not that quality, but the law requires that everyone have the one size fits all government designed benefit package. it has to have all ten categories in it. the 50-year-old compauple will for maternity care. the straight arrow has to pay for inpatient treatment. >> the president wants everyone to be protected. >> the assumption is we are too stupid to choose our own health insurance. that's why right now millions of people who were promised they could keep their healthcare are will go herded out of their plans. >> the new plans include all of this stuff. >> suddenly the washington bureaucrat and people like kathleen sebelius changed the promise. it's not you can keep your plan if you want it you have a plan

that was bgarbage and it was a scam and you were too stupid to know it now we are giving you the pack thanking that is right. >> which costs more. >> of course. they include these things you don't need. they want you to have it. not because you are going to use their services they can pyou ca put your money in there they can spend your money taking care of someone else. colonoscopy. a 30-year-old doesn't need that kind of quote free preventative care. being forced to pay for a colonoscopy feels almost as bad as getting one. >> get the healthy to pay for the sick. it sounds kind. >> that's not how this law was sold. the president knew to sell this law he had to say you can keep what you have if you like it. let's just take care of the uninsured. it was a scam from the beginning. >> the ugly reality of central planning now is being revealed

the less continues to run celebrations of how great obama care is. especially for you women. care will be free. >> when you pay nothing for something, you over use it. >> where is the tooth fairy? they are suggesting there is a tooth fairy. none of that is free. it is included up front in your premium. many premiums are doubling they are paying for it even they thou don't use it. >> let's talk about the promise when he was campaigning. your insurance premiums will go down. >> we will lower your premiums by 2500 per family per year. >> he sounds like a demagogue. it is unbecoming of the president. >> don't you think central

planners thought spou -- >> there's a reason these premiums include 100 billion in new taxes insurance companies are passing on. when you write your premium check it includes a big chunk of uncle sam and includes paying for the state's benefit package only a little bit will be relevant to your life. >> let's pay a commercial from the incredible thanks obama care web site. starts with hearts beating for obama care then it goes to history costs were rising sharply. >> in 2009 something wonderful happens. obama care you were angry with misinformation clouded the proof and passing. healthcare won out. yipee. obama care.

>> over half of this law is paid for by cuts to medicare. hospitals are already laying off nurses. this plan unfortunately lowers the standard of care, that's why the steak is not what is going in your shopping cart and it puts government in charge of your care. it takes away something as precious as life itself, your liberty. >> what we libertarians want is more individual decisions, but that means people pay for more of their healthcare themselves. people want to do that. they will be programmed to say somebody else should pay. >> take a look at the deducti e deductibles a 5,000 dollar deductible in a bronze plan and 3,000 deductible for silver plan. that's for individuals. those deductibles are so high young people will never get a dollar back. >> there are zero co-pays.

no co-pay for birth control. >> check the facts. it's not a good deal. >> you can use hash tag obama scare to let people know what you think. some things i like has happened because of this law. it's not the celebrity pitches for obama care like this one. we will get to those, too. i was surprised obama care may have accomplished something good. when our little girlas born,

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♪ >> allotted of folks reason talking about our new healthcare enrollment web site how it has been crashing and freezing and shutting down and stalling and not working and breaking and sucking. >> when the liberal media criticizes their favorite you know the problem is bad. this news was so blaring even though couldn't ignore it. this week i was trying to think you might have some real insight where the web sites grew up and then one of the annoying alerts popped up on the screen warning virus dpeekted your computer is at risk. this is not a scam. mcafee is the world's biggest

security technology company. the engineer who founded it john mc af fee joins us now. you were asked to help fix the obama care site. >> well, i was. i think the reason is what you just mentioned. i did found the world's largest computer security company and in the industry i am known as a reasonably competent engineer. however, on the negative side my past history and lifestyle would not make the best pr image for helping. in any case, i choose to turn them down because i didn't think they were serious about implementing what had to be done which is throw it out and start over. not serious is the part of your belief that the way government worked is not conducive to producing a competent web site. >> no. absolutely not. there are a bunch of reasons for that, the federal acquisition requirements manual which is 2,000 pages long. >> i happen to have that here.

anybody who works with the feds do anything have to obey this and if you are going to do a web site for obama care you also have to understand and obey 6,000 more pages. >> that's woshth. the total of 8,000 pages you have to be a government expert not a technology expert it to just meet the requirements. the proposals are as large as the requirements. they are sometimes thousands of pages long. that's not conducive. in a company like google when you do a project you go in a room with a blank sheet of paper and one requirement, make it, would. then you get to choose exactly what needs to be done given the technology at that moment. they say you have to use vhs recorders and the standards no longer exist. >> but that's government.

not only did this not work, you discover there are security holes. >> not the least of which they did not bother -- it's sen pral management that makes things work, too. if there is no one managing coordinating the process it won't work. >> why is this a hacker's dream and why does it put you in danger if you use the site? >> for a number of reasons. there are over 700 sites now that are scam sites based on the fact that the government did not take up all of the copycat names normally for a site this size. they are spending $100 million for the software. you spend about 2 or 300 thousand to buy every conceiveable name the people might pipe in this sounds like this. obama care.com.

healthcare.org. whatever. >> there are several hundred sites people think they are going to obama care site but it is sun who wants your credit card information? >> once you input that information your bank account is likely to be emptied. this is the identity theft of the highest order. >> the president said it went down because we had 8 million users in it the week. >> 8 million users in a week but less than a single dig get number of people who successful lie sign-- successfully signed . i know every system has blimps. the iphone has glitches. but a glitch is a minor annoy ance. when you got the iphone you could still make calls, you could text, you could check your e-mail. >> it still worked. >> it still worked. this is a catastrophic failure. it is not a glitch. it was not tested there was no quality assurance and no system integration. >> now government is going to run all of our healthcare.

that is a scary thought. cgi awarded the contract we will learn more about that. thank you for joining us with your expertise. >> you're welcome, sir. >> they could wade through all of this regulation rather than hire a specialist who knows software won't work long in the private sector. private companies with their own money on the line requesticily learned who does not deliver. canadian journalist brian lilly wasn't surprised when he learned cgi was behind the obama care web site. why? >> this is a company that has figured out how to work with government regulations. they figured out how to wade through it 6,000 regulations that are governing the building of the obama care web site. they know how to do that. they have been doing this heit r a long time. >> they have a history of failure in canada.

>> history of failure. they would point to some successes if you had their executives on right now. let me give you a few of these. $46 million was spent just to have them go away after paying them for a while to build a diabetes registry for the ontario health system. the goal was to create an electronic health record for every citizen in the country's most populus providence. their small part of that billion dollar project which didn't deliver anything was a diabetes registry. they couldn't deliver it. decade later this were given a contract for new brunswick providence next to maine about the same sides. they couldn't deliver on that. went from 4.5 million to 35 million. they guilt the federal gun registry to track every rifle and hunting shot gun in the country and they were eventually fired after $90 million.

>> i am getting the drift. >> you got the j-- they got the because they had krocronie connection with the administration? >> the connection should have let them know they shouldn't have hired these guys. i will give you a couple examples. if they called up the government health contract they could have had david axle rod call the premier he studied under axle rod. same political ad viseor as obama. valerie jarrett her daughter married the son of a cabinet minister in ontario. >> they partied together. >> yeah. >> you have these background connections they could have called and said are these guys any good? no you are firing them? you are done. maybe tony who is michelle obama's classmate who would have

been the trump card -- >> this is from my perspective how cgi cooperates in terms of having a connection. when they get in they don't just build and leave the way john mc af f -- mcafee would. >> we call that crony capitalism. >> you may have lost insurance you like. i was surprised because of obama care something good has happened. i will tell you what that is next. next. ♪ [ male announcer ] need help keeping your digestive balance in sync? try align.

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♪ john: here it is. >> here it is obama care 2,000 pages. that what scares me on halloween american people vote for politicians who think it is good

to micro manage life with stuff like this. this is awful. this kind of central planning reduces our choices and complicates life. there's a silver lining something i hadn't expected. the manhattan institute specializes in thhealthcare. he noticed that, too. parts of obama care by accident have done something good. possibly yes. which is? >> one of the things obama care does as we know attempts to set up these insurance exchanges where people can shop for coverage. plus it doesn't touch that much. it modestly increased the set of regulations in the employer based market. sum total of these effects is possibly to increase the number of people who shop for coverage on their own and have health savings accounts and catastrophic coverage which is ex pactly the kind of insurance the free market people said they always wanted to have. >> that makes sense. we should point out the old system wasn't a free market

paradise. 8 out of 10 healthcare dollars were pespent by the government before obama care. >> this is such an important point. so many americans have the impression left and right that we had a free market situation before obama care. that's not exactly right. america has the single payer system for the elderly, low income people. >> medicare and medicaid. >> employer sponsored system isn't a true free market system either. >> the government stacks the rules because they don't have employers which is stupid. >> another form of dependence. you are dependent on your employer for coverage instead of buying it yourself and controlling the health col wi dollars yourself. >> more people are waking up and paying attention to what healthcare costs for the first time. people thought everything should be free man knee are buying health savings ktsz. explain. >> in 2003 a law passed during

the bush years realized the use of health savings accounts to pay for your own health use. >> which should never have been illegal. >> it is like a 401 k for your healthcare you can take that money and invest it. >> if you don't use it this year it rolls over. >> instead of a comprehensive health insurance plan at the end of the year you don't use it and it evaporates you could have a smaller premium you get hit by a bus you are covered for the catastrophic conditions and in the other times you are saving. >> it is your money you start to ask the doctor, does it have to cost that much. >> you can shop based on price, on value, on quality. all of a sudden the doctors are catering to you the hospitals are catering to you. >> we have a new example of that in oklahoma where the medical center the university of oklahoma posts prices.

>> you are doing a huge business. enormous demand from neighboring states and countries. people say in dallas i am being charged 20,000 for knee replacement. i could send the guy to oklahoma at the surgical center that posts prices on-line and you could save 1500 boucks -- bucks. >> it leads also to innovation. i noticed the detroit medical center bragged when the obama care debate was happening we will be the first to use bar codes for medication scanning. that is probably a good thing. supermarkets did it with candy and coke 35 years ago. >>.did it take 35 years nethey were in charge of their health dollars. the technology keeps getting better and prices keep going down. insurance doesn't cover health insurance. >> the doctors give themselves phone numbers and e-mail

addresses. my doctor will not do that. thank you very much. keep fighting the fight. coming up president obama dot celebrities to tell people, sign up for coverage. celebrities were eager to help. >> you can sign up for healthcare on-line in 10 minutes. >> obama care. [ female announcer ] pantene volume, with collagen-inspired plumping effect. thick. full. 24-hour volume. get volume from the world's number one haircare brand, pantene. but as time passed, i stted to notice max just wasn't himself.e

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♪ [ male announcer ] prilosec otc. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. >> you may have grown more skeptical of government planned health insurance. here's an actress whom i like. >> i am elizabeth banks. if you need health insurance you can find affordable coverage at the health insurance marketplace by healthcare.gov. >> she did record that along with a bunch of other celebrities. this was before she knew that healthcare.gov might not work.

maybe she regrets doing that pitch i don't know because her agent didn't return the phone call. the paioint is this administratn has been getting celebrities to endorse the policies. peter sueder man studies this kind of stuff. celebs are useful because obama care needs young people to sign up for this to work. turning out young people is crucial to make this law work. that's what the obama administration says. their numbers show in order for this law to really work and be sustainable they need about 2.7 million people, young people, young and relatively healthy folks to sign up for exchanges in the first year. the reason they need that is these young people by paying more and not using very much healthcare will balance out the premiums and create a broad risk pool that will -- >> cover the geezers like me who are much more likely to get sick

and whose costs would be much higher. i get a break and the young people pay more. >> right. this is campaign style marketing. the obama administration has really thought about this in the exact same way they thought about the presidential political campaigns obama was successful in turning out young people to vote. >> he hired these consult can'ts brilliant about using it. when he set it up he used the government contractors who is saying. >> the obama administration has more experienced doing the marketing side rather than the politics and technical side. that spoiled them here. the issue with the campaign is that they in the past have been getting people to vote. now they are trying to get them signed up for coverage. it is a big difference. it's important.

going to vote it doesn't cost you anything but the time it takes to get there. the insurance policies for young people in particular are going to be expensive. all policies for young people are going to be more expensive on average>> you could buy a car for that. >> the prices we are seeing in many cases are going to be the same price as a monthly payment on a car. >> brand new toyota corolla for that. >> that's right. they want to brain wash them and celebrities are helping. we have the vampire diary's actress. she had it on insurance taw gram and says i am canadian we have it you are naked. >> amy boiler adam scott, emily van camp.

i don't know who all of these people are. some of them went to the white house and met with the president about this. jennifer hudson, michael sara, they are in the tank and they are in love. >> this is the marketing, this is the outreach they are choosing to do. the question is a celebrity focused campaign going to be enough to get young people to spend 200, $275 a month on health insurance when the alternative is to simply pay a penalty of $95 next year? that is the question. this is the administration's question, can we make this work? they ran a focus group and they were unable to find a majority of young people to sign up at a price point they were asking them about. >> california has an $80 million marketing budget just for

marketing obama care in california. >> thank you peter of the wonderful reason magazine. coming up, i am critical of obama care and the government dominated system that preceded it. does any othplace have a better system? there is one. that's next. stick with innovation. stick with power. stick with technology. get the flexcare platinum. new from philips sonicare. that's why there's new duracell quantum. only duracell quantum has a hi-density core. and that means more fuel, more power, more performance than the next leading brand. new duracell quantu trusted everywhere.

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♪ >> after looking at obama care and a government dominated system that preceded obama care we searched the world what aboutinging for a place where the free market is allowed to work. there isn't any. every industrialized country copied the american european government heavy model in sorm form. there is one place where consumers are given a little more choice and doctors are given a little more freedom. there is more market competition and sure enough in that place people spend lesson healthcare. but they live longer. where is that place? william just flew in there. where is that? the other side of the world you took the other night flight. you are looking very flesh. >> thank you. >> you have been studying

singapore. how does it work? >> they have a system in which there's a mandatory 401 k. it's a savings plan and part of that savings plan you use for your own health so it is out of pocket. >> it is government run. employers and workers must contribute. >> they must contribute. it's your money. >> like the health savings account. >> it is also a health savings account and retirement account. you use that money and in three quarters of the healthcare expenses. when it is your money it is more careful. >> unlike america where we pay for 10 percent of the stuff directly three fourths of it consumer spends singapore they shop around. >> they also have a catastrophic health insurance plan which on the average costs 2 percent of the insurance bill. >> two percent. >> our plans are covering everything. >> the second principle they

have is transparency. that is critical. transparency in price and transparency in outcome. >> they lower prices in singapore angio plast tee 13,000 dollars. united states 83,000. gastric bypass 13,000 verses 70,000. the hospitals have greater awe ton me. >> they are autonomously run units to compete with one another. they compete on costs and quality and gives the consumer a choice. >> if they make extra profit they can reinvest that? >> that's right. >> life expectancy is longer than the united states. >> much longer than the united states. but in addition to that if you look at child mortality, maternal mortality death under the age of 5 death of young

people and incidents of diabetes and other diseases they don't much better than we do. united states is slightly above the dominican republic. >> they rate equality of care. >> life-span is pretty -- >> part of it is because we choose each other more often. we drive cars and kill ourselves on the highway more often. life-span is not i would say the best. >> i think it is a good measure but childhood mortality is a very good measure. they are not driving cars and not shooting each other and not smoking. >> thank you william. you have written is book about this called affordable excellence the sing wore healthcare source. >> i appreciate that. thank you. >> coming up, my take on obama care. now that we're retired,

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really? that's our tide. what'sours? ♪ >> all this talk about the obama care web site misses the bigger problem. central planning, which is what. the last thing we want to trust central planning with is our healthcare. central planning can work okay if you throw enough money at it. most americans like their public

schools. people like european trains. some like air france. most canadians like their single payer system. over time central planning has to breakdown. took the soviet union 70 years to fail. but socialism eventually fails. capitalism won the cold war and now we are adopting the economic system that lost? this is nuts. it happens because sen prcentra planning a piles. it promises sound good. >> we are going to lower your premiums by $2,500 per family per year. hooray. people want to believe that. we don't have time to read all of the details, but the president want to harvard he and experts must know how to handle it better than the confusing competition we have now. so we trust the planners. we need that dcompetition becaue

without it you get the centrally planned car. >> made of plastic. it was a terrible car. who had to put the oil and gas in separately. it is hard to drive. spews pollution. it was the pride of east germans. the waiting list was years long. government experts created it just as our experts created obama care. oo you want the best car you get the smartest people together in a room and tell them to design it. but this is what you get. >> when the berlin wall fell it disappeared it couldn't compete with our mediocre cars competing for our free market. what if your computer was created central planners. france tried that. 30 years ago french politicians

created the computer network. government gave yeveryone a fre computer. you would think that would have given the french a huge computer lead. they left france in the dust at silicone valley. government experts could keep up with the spon tan yours experiments. order generated without design can far out strip plans men consciously contrive. the french government's response was to cover it in six colors. pathetic. no one wanted it. you might say they are examples like cherry picking. air france is okay. b maybe it is but it is only because it has to compete with private airlines. obama care outlaws much of the private competition.

they make louse zee goods, too, bau buzz they have competition they often times go out of business. governments never do. they like obama care and central planning in general point to canada. canadian khealthcare is free. that means paid for through taxes. that means less competition and almost no innovation. governments rarely innovate they keep doing what they did last year venlt you couldn't get the latest stuff. and you have to wait. if it you need knee replacement or cad racket surgery you have to wait for years. in some costs they have a lottery to see who will get to see a doctor. >> inside are the names of everyone in town who wants the family doctor. she pulls out one slip and then calls the lucky winner. >> i want to let you know your name has been withdrawn from the patient list.

you are quite well come. >> i should say not all of canadian healthcare is long lines. some places offer easy access to cutting edge technology. >> pt plan and laposcopy, arthroscopic procedures to evaluate joints for cartilage abnormal aility. >> available all of the time. >> 24-hours 7 days a week. >> patients rarely wait. >> if i see a patient who torn a appreciate yacht ligament in that patient's knee we can have the patient scheduled within probably a week. >> but you have to bark or meow to get this kind of treatment. want a ct scan in canada? is they could get the dog in the next day. for people the waiting list is a month. >> many clients will come here with their pets and as they are leaving it's when next time i get sick i want to come here. i don't want to go to the regular hospital.

>> a rottute to better cheaper healthcare is market competition. not this. that's our show. see you next week. you on what . tonight on huckabee. >> if you like your health care plan you will be able to cope your health care plan. >> broken promises and a rising premiums and a website. how can the president and democrats defend obama care? and the president said you can cope your doctor. but can your doctor stay in business? . plus, comedy icon. >> you can see harvey wetting his pants. ♪ >> ladies and gentlemen,